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Swihart pushes Zcash’s shielded pool as Mesquka bets on Railgun’s DeFi privacy

Friday, June 5, 2026 · from 3 podcasts
  • Developers are pivoting from ideology to product, pitching Zcash and Railgun as practical hedges against AI surveillance.
  • Zcash’s shielded pool tripled to 30% of supply, a key metric for its transition from research to utility.
  • An undetected infinite inflation bug in Zcash forced a secret soft fork, revealing centralization risk.

Josh Swihart, CEO of the Zcash Open Development Lab, built surveillance systems earlier in his career and now sees private money as the only defense. He argues that without built-in privacy, AI agents can map a citizen’s entire life from a public ledger.

His project is undergoing a structural reset. Backed by a $25 million raise from Paradigm and a16z, ZODL is shifting from a non-profit foundation to a for-profit, product-led startup. The key adoption metric isn't price, but the shielded pool - the amount of ZEC held in private addresses. It grew from 11% to over 30% of supply in two years, indicating a move toward self-custody and real utility.

"Privacy in internet money is existential to prevent dystopia."

- Josh Swihart, Bankless

Yet Zcash faces a fundamental trust crisis. According to Rabbit Hole Recap, developers found an undetectable infinite inflation bug in the newest privacy pool. Instead of a public disclosure, they performed a quiet soft fork to freeze the pool by coordinating with a handful of dominant miners. This level of centralization, argue hosts Marty Bent and Matt Odell, proves the project’s fragility.

Ethereum, meanwhile, is a transparency trap. On Bitcoin Takeover, Kieran Mesquka notes that buying coffee with ETH can let a waiter see your entire trading history on Etherscan. His project, Railgun, uses ZK-Snarks to bring Zcash-style privacy to DeFi, allowing users to swap on Uniswap or supply liquidity from shielded balances.

Mesquka defends Railgun’s Private Proof of Innocence system, which lets users prove their funds aren’t linked to illicit actors without doxxing themselves to a central authority. This pragmatic approach, he argues, is necessary to maintain access to the broader financial system, even if it means accepting some screening.

"Ethereum’s transparency is valuable for auditing lending protocols. Total privacy in every layer would break the visibility that makes decentralized finance safer than shadow banking."

- Kieran Mesquka, Bitcoin Takeover Podcast

The push comes amid a legislative threat. Rabbit Hole Recap highlights the Digital Asset Market Clarity Act, backed by 160 former intelligence officials, which aims to apply Bank Secrecy Act requirements to non-custodial protocols. The hosts frame it as a surveillance expansion disguised as regulatory clarity.

While Bitcoin’s culture of ossification, as Mesquka calls it, keeps advanced privacy on the periphery, Ethereum-based projects are betting that opt-in, product-led privacy is the viable path forward - flaws and all.

Source Intelligence

- Deep dive into what was said in the episodes

RABBIT HOLE RECAP #412: STAY HUMBLE AND STACK SATSJun 4

  • A Zcash developer team found an undetectable infinite inflation bug in its newest privacy pool, froze the pool via a soft fork, and forced a hard fork to fix it without full transparency, creating a potential bank run scenario.
  • Cala announced a trust-minimized Cashu mint using a trusted execution environment, where mint keys are generated within a secure enclave, preventing operator inflation or access to Bitcoin reserves.
  • Strike added phishing protection via in-app code words, a practical update given email leaks from other services like Ledger.
Also from this episode: (10)

BTC Markets (4)

  • Marty notes Bitcoin's price has dropped to early February levels, with WTI oil prices 50% higher now than when Bitcoin was at similar prices back then.
  • MicroStrategy sold 32 BTC for $2.5 million, which hosts speculate was a round-number decision to cover dividend obligations, not a significant meme amount.
  • The hosts argue Stretch and SATA bonds are not risk-free, pointing out they recently traded at discounts to par ($95.52 and $96.54) and carry significant counterparty risk dependent on Michael Saylor's priorities.
  • Prediction markets like Polymarket have an unsolvable oracle problem, highlighted when it ruled a 'yes' bet on a MicroStrategy Bitcoin sale as 'no' because the sale was announced after the contract deadline.

Custody (1)

  • Marty argues on-chain data dashboards are increasingly irrelevant because a huge portion of the Bitcoin market is now held in custodial accounts, not self-custody wallets.

Protocol (3)

  • The hosts view Zcash's centralized response - where three people could freeze a pool holding billions of dollars - as proof of its inferior censorship resistance compared to Bitcoin.
  • Marty claims it was an open secret in New York circa 2016-2017 that an inflation bug on Monero was being exploited to buy more Bitcoin, though it can't be proven.
  • Treasure disclosed a laser fault injection attack vulnerability in its open-source Tropic 01 secure element chip but asserts user funds in the Treasure Safe 7 are safe because it requires compromising a second, closed-source secure element.

Payments (1)

  • The hosts speculate recent US sanctions seizures targeting Iranian crypto exchanges likely involved freezing stablecoins like Tether through backdoor portals, not seizing Bitcoin.

AI & Tech (1)

  • Anthropic's fundraising claims that AI development is accelerating, with Claude now writing code at parity with humans and achieving a 52x speed-up on a model optimization task in May.

"ZODL is to Zcash What Coinbase Was to Bitcoin" | Josh Swihart on ZEC’s AwakeningJun 1

  • Josh Swihart believes privacy in internet money is existential to prevent dystopia. He agrees with Balaji's statement that society faces a binary choice: Zcash or communism.
  • Swihart argues true censorship resistance and security for crypto as internet money are impossible without built-in privacy. He contends privacy is required for personal agency.
  • Swihart began his career building intelligence systems that aggregated public online data to profile individuals. This experience drove his search for private cryptocurrency solutions in 2016.
  • Swihart says building private systems requires two to three times more engineering effort than non-private ones. The challenge is making that complexity invisible to users.
  • Swihart argues the perception of Zcash as the 'compliant' privacy coin is memetic, not regulatory. Exchanges like Gemini support shielded withdrawals, proving compliance is possible with engineering work.
  • He views the shielded pool size as the key adoption KPI, not price. The shielded pool grew from 11% of ZEC supply in early 2024 to over 30%, representing sticky, utility-driven adoption.
Also from this episode: (7)

Protocol (4)

  • He co-founded ZODL after leaving the Electric Coin Company to address governance and UX issues holding Zcash back. The ZODL team comprises the entire former core engineering team from ECC.
  • The launch of the Zashi wallet, now ZODL, reversed declining shielded pool growth. Adding hardware wallet support and swap functionality via Nillion and Maya caused shielded adoption to go vertical.
  • Swihart states the ZODL roadmap focuses on three areas: achieving post-quantum security, scaling for billions of users via Project Takion, and building a complete parallel financial system for usability.
  • Swihart dismisses the store of value versus medium of exchange debate for ZEC, focusing on utility. He believes ZEC is technically superior to Bitcoin but remains drastically undervalued.

Startups (3)

  • ZODL raised $25 million from Paradigm, A16Z, Winklevoss Capital, Coinbase Ventures, and Chapter One. Swihart prioritized investors aligned with the mission over just capital.
  • Balaji Srinivasan framed ZODL's role as analogous to Coinbase's for Bitcoin. The thesis is that ZODL's value could 1000x by delivering user experience on the Zcash protocol.
  • Swihart claims major investors allocated 75-90% of their Zcash-focused investment to buying ZEC directly, with the remainder funding ZODL to create a symbiotic growth relationship.

S17 E27: Kieran Mesquka on Railgun & Building PrivacyJun 1

  • Kieran Mesquka argues public blockchain activity, especially on Ethereum, risks leaking sensitive personal habits and financial strategies, making privacy a necessity for serious adoption.
  • Mesquka distinguishes Railgun from Tornado Cash and Zcash by its ability to execute DeFi operations directly from shielded balances using multi-calls.
  • Naomi Brockwell’s privacy approach focuses on incremental improvements through intentional behavior, like opting out of unnecessary data sharing.
  • Mesquka attributes law enforcement issues for Tornado Cash founders to public relations and marketing choices, contrasting Railgun’s approach.
  • Railgun uses a Private Proof of Innocence (PPI) system to filter transactions, aiming to maintain a clean privacy set and avoid mixing with illicit funds.
Also from this episode: (9)

Big Tech (1)

  • Modern smart TVs collect content ID data from any HDMI source, not just built-in apps, creating pervasive backdoor data collection.

AI & Tech (4)

  • Mesquka cites Groth16 zk-SNARKs as the current sweet spot for Railgun, balancing cryptographic durability, verifier efficiency, and scalability.
  • The Railgun protocol has been deployed to Arbitrum, BSC, and Polygon, with Ethereum remaining the primary chain due to its DeFi activity.
  • Future privacy tech interests for Mesquka include private information retrieval standards and Ethereum EIPs like 7702 that improve wallet programmability.
  • Mesquka engaged with Ethereum after its launch because Parity’s embedded Remix IDE allowed scripting without needing to fork a full node.

Culture (1)

  • Mesquka’s privacy philosophy prioritizes building privacy where usage exists, rather than convincing users to abandon modern conveniences.

Protocol (3)

  • Mesquka suggests Bitcoin’s cultural prioritization of stability over feature expansion has hindered the adoption of advanced privacy solutions like Zcash.
  • Kieran Mesquka discovered Bitcoin through online cypherpunk communities and built mining clients to understand its consensus mechanics.
  • The Railgun project is roughly six years old, with Mesquka being a prominent public contributor but not claiming majority credit.