Industry alliance secretly defining podcasts amid measurement war
- A secretive alliance aims to redefine podcasts to capture a claimed $1 billion in sidelined ad revenue.
- Major ad bodies and platforms like YouTube are excluded, casting doubt on consensus.
- Radical proposals suggest paying app developers for listener data to solve trust gaps overnight.
A year of clandestine talks between Spotify, SiriusXM, and others produced an alliance with a single stated goal: unlock a billion dollars. The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting claims inconsistent definitions scare advertisers away.
James Cridland notes key industry bodies like the IAB are absent. Sam Sethi is skeptical of a secret group setting standards for the entire ecosystem without YouTube, Spotify, or Acast. The alliance plans to reveal its definitions in July.
Adam Curry argues the data problem is artificial. Apps deliver the audio but capture no value. He proposes cutting app developers into ad revenue - a 5% to 10% share would incentivize them to share first-party playback data advertisers need.
"If agencies offered a 5% to 10% cut of ad spend to app developers, the data problem would vanish."
Adam Curry, Podcasting 2.0
Curry’s model mirrors Apple’s existing approach. James Cridland argues this aligns incentives, transforming the ecosystem from loose RSS feeds into a formal partner network where data flows with the money.
While the alliance seeks top-down control, other moves target the neglected middle tier. Captivate and Global’s Dax US launched a unified monetization suite for mid-tier creators, combining programmatic and direct sales tools.
Brian Conland says Dax will use contextual targeting and attribution partners to offer advertisers a single CPM, treating podcasting like digital radio. The goal is scale the major holding companies require.
"The tension lies in whether a 'secret' group can actually force the rest of the ecosystem to align."
Sam Sethi, Podnews Weekly Review
The fight is over who defines the terms and who gets paid. The alliance wants to codify ‘podcast’ and ‘impression.’ Curry wants to pay the gatekeepers. Both claim the same pot of gold.
Source Intelligence
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James Cridland
Captivate's monetisation in the US; and the BBC gets more involved in Crossed Wires • Jun 5
- James Cridland says the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting (AMP) is defining key terms like 'podcast' and 'impression' to unlock a claimed $1B in sidelined ad demand, with findings to be revealed in July at Oxford Road's CAO Summit.
- Adam Curry suggests cutting podcast app developers into ad revenue to incentivize platform investment, mirroring Apple's model, which Cridland argues would simplify budgeting and enable better market measurement.
- Sam Sethi is skeptical of AMP's secretive process, noting the absence of key industry players like the IAB, Sounds Profitable, YouTube, Spotify, and Acast from its membership.
- Captivate and Global's Dax US have launched a unified monetization suite, combining Captivate's platform with Dax's programmatic and direct sales to target under-monetized mid-tier and hyperlocal creators.
- Brian Conland says Dax US will leverage contextual targeting via partners like Barometer and use attribution partners like Claritas and Podscribe to offer advertisers a single CPM for optimizing across streaming and podcasting.
- The SiriusXM and iHeartMedia merger is not proceeding, which James Cridland predicted, noting Global's 38% stake in iHeartMedia could lead to future consolidation moves.
Also discussed on this episode: (9)
Enterprise (1)
- Mark Asquith states Captivate's new ad marketplace has no qualification barriers, aiming to serve everyone from bedroom creators to enterprise publishers, and will include direct deal facilitation.
AI & Tech (1)
- YouTube reported 800 million hours of podcast consumption by Premium users in April, while also adding podcast-specific features like On The Go mode and AI recommendations in YouTube Music.
Media (6)
- James Cridland criticizes platforms for announcing podcast features to investors or via blog posts instead of directly to podcasters at industry events, citing recent moves by Spotify and YouTube.
- Patreon and Substack are shifting from pure payment processors to content destinations, adding features like feeds and community tools, which Sam Sethi warns could create new walled gardens for audience activity data.
- Tubi has signed a non-exclusive deal with SiriusXM to stream video podcasts like Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, sharing ad sales, representing a more traditional media partnership than Netflix's acquisition model.
- Dino Sofrano says the Crossed Wires festival sold 25,000 tickets last year and will feature a BBC iPlayer channel this year, filming both BBC and commercial shows like Dig It with Zoe Ball and Joe Wiley.
- Dino Sofrano's production company Persifonica focuses on building 360-degree IP brands with talent like Zoe Ball and Greg James, using remote 4K video setups to create intimacy and is exploring US market expansion.
- RSS.com survey data analyzed by Ralph EStep Jr. shows podcast discovery is shifting away from podcast apps, with 6% of new listeners finding their favorite show on YouTube and many using social media or word of mouth.
AI Infrastructure (1)
- Tom Rossi proposes a provable user agent system for podcast apps, similar to DKIM in email, to combat bots fraudulently claiming to be apps like Apple Podcasts and driving up hosting costs, especially for video.
Adam Curry
Episode 261: Podhemian Grove • May 29
Also discussed on this episode: (8)
Open Source (1)
- Adam Curry argues podcasting's core value lies in open distribution protocols and that advertising is a secondary, cumbersome revenue model for most creators.
Media (2)
- The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting, formed secretly by companies like Spotify and DraftKings, aims to define podcast metrics for ad budgets but excludes independent apps.
- Curry proposes cutting podcast app developers into ad revenue streams as the only viable solution to provide advertisers with first-party listener data.
AI & Tech (1)
- Dave Jones observes that AI tools lack consistency, reproducibility, and reliable iteration, making them incapable of replacing human tasks despite boosting productivity.
Startups (1)
- Mike Dell notes Blueberry partnered with Podpage to offer landing pages to hosting customers, dropping their own development to focus on core strengths.
Enterprise (1)
- Blueberry eliminated free hosting trials to combat bot farms generating fake downloads for programmatic ad fraud.
Big Tech (2)
- Blueberry's VidDapod service converts YouTube channels to audio podcasts, distributing them to over 125 listening apps to expand audience reach.
- Adam Curry sees the AMP Accords' claim of a billion dollars of sidelined ad demand as money currently flowing to YouTube, not podcasting.